Potential Embassies for Closure or Transfer

VerdantHaven

In accordance with our ongoing efforts to streamline embassies, and spurred on by our conversation on the RMB lately (thanks, Turbeaux!), here is the list I currently have of embassies that we likely want to consider for closure, as well as those for which we should hold transfer votes as soon as we’re able. Pending feedback, I will start posting votes shortly after the Christmas holiday.

For Potential Closure

The Federation of Anarchist Communes. This is a slam-dunk closure, and will be the first vote I post. They have formally shut down their region, suggested that residents depart as they please, and do not have a successor state. What remains is locked, with a population of 6.
Futaba Aoi. While this is one of our oldest embassies (3rd oldest, established 22 may 2012), the region is utterly dead. There are a total of 7 nations, none of which are in the WA. There have been only 10 postings on their RMB in the last 2+ years, of which 8 are from Forest announcing our events and such. However far back we may go, it is better to offer a respectful funeral than to dress up a corpse and pretend it’s alive.
A Liberal Haven. The region has been password locked for 3 years, and has almost no activity. The remaining population of 21 has 2 WA members, who are themselves pretty much the only sign of RMB activity other than the occasional ambassador trying to figure out what’s going on. Embassy with them was closed on a previous occasion, though was re-opened after just a couple days.
Singapore. The most questionable one in my mind, I’d be ok either way. They have just 19 nations, with a single WA member, and would barely qualify for an embassy with themselves, according to their Embassy policy. The one “major player” I recognize who was a Singapore resident, prolific issue author Singapore no2, CTE’d 6 months ago. Their RMB is sporadic and mostly just a few people talking. Our embassy with them was also closed in the past, but reopened after a few days - not sure why. I could go either way here.

For Transfer
I would like to get these two votes up as soon as the Constitutional Amendment is resolved (hopefully with it in place, to make it easier)

Conifer. They have shut down and transferred to Evergreen Conifer, their legitimate successor. We should have a vote to close the Conifer embassy and continue it as an Evergreen Conifer embassy
Pacifica. They have shut down and transferred to Thalassia, their legitimate successor. They closed the Pacifica embassy on their end, but their ambassador Wiskawga extended a request that we continue it with Thalassia, which I would like to hold a vote to do.

Please let me know your thoughts on the above! I’ll get votes for the full closures going just after Christmas this week, and will be submitting the amendment for founder approval around then as well, so we can hopefully do the vote and then the transfers in January.

Turbeaux

The proposed amendment would make it easy to transfer our Conifer and Pacifica embassies. Even if it does not go to vote or get passed, Evergreen Conifer will be elegible for an embassy within the existing system in March. I have that marked off on my calendar. I agree with your embassies listed for potential closure list though. The only stumbling block could be some maudlin overattachment to Futuba Aoi and Singapore due to our historical connections to those regions.

DarthedDroids

I say full speed ahead with the embassy closures and re-openings for the designated regions. I bear nothing ill toward Thalassia at this case given they had already divorced themselves from their troublesome founder of the previous region, and appear to be doing well on their own, and support a continuance of embassies with them most especially.

Mount Seymour

I think some history might be helpful here:

The FAC – I agree that we need to close that embassy. The FAC was a successor region to FAC, founded after FAC’s founder CTEd. They seem not to have been able to keep it going, unfortunately.

Futaba Aoi – The first time we were looking at closing embassies, I was against closing this one. Ransium was also against, I believe, and his reasoning was that closing an embassy can only hurt our foreign relations, especially when we’ve had embassies for seven years. In the most recent round of embassy-auditing, though, I came to the conclusion that as long as we made a respectful ceremony out of closing the embassy (and maybe made it a bit of an event celebrating the many years of embassy relations, rather than just something Ruinenlust did in the background), it would be acceptable. That’s my basic feeling now too – a respectful funeral would be ideal.

A Liberal Haven – The previous embassy closure you’re noticing – in August 2016 – was the result of a raid of ALH by the Black Hawks and Europeia (that raid was actually what got me into defending, and eventually into gameplay in the wider world!). ALH was a fairly active region and one of our best allies, but its founder CTEd, and then after that raid, it passworded and slowly became less and less active as they weren’t able to get off the ground again. I suppose a respectful funeral wouldn’t be a bad way to go for ALH as well, but it does seem a bit sad that this is all a result of one raid.

Singapore – Like ALH, that closing and sudden reopening was the result of a raid (by HYDRA, if I recall correctly). Singapore has been raided many, many times in the past because it has no founder. During the period when they were more active, I remember them having quite a complex vetting process in order to allow them to remain alive while keeping a password up.

You may not have realized, but @Garden-of-Holly (a.k.a. Alanis Star or Valentine Z) is also a Singaporean. Back in June, when we were doing this embassy audit thing before, I asked them what state Singapore was in:

[9:00 PM]Somyrion:Heya - Forest’s government was wondering if you could tell us anything about the state of Singapore (the NS region). We’ve noticed it’s been really inactive recently, and saw Conifer was withdrawing their embassy. As the resident Singaporean government official (I think? 😛), we thought we should ask you.
[9:03 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:Let me ask the others first, then we will get back to you! ^^
[9:03 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:Sorry for the late reply!
[9:03 PM]Somyrion:You might have already gotten a TG from Turbeaux about the same thing, just noticed, sorry >.>
[9:04 PM]Somyrion:not at all, that was just three minutes of wait :stuck_out_tongue:
[9:08 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:Haha, sorry as in I think it will take a while for me to talk to others. Gotta see if they are active.
[9:09 PM]Somyrion:that’s okay, we just wanted to check in
[8:49 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:I’m still asking my other active nations in Singapore, so… this is gonna take a while.
For us, some of us are still active, but it’s just that we don’t really talk much, and we certainly will feel awkward if it is just puppets talking to each other.
[8:54 PM]Somyrion:mhm
[8:54 PM]Somyrion:what do you mean by just puppets talking to each other?
[8:56 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z: Oh, what we meant is that in RMB, the active ones made up like 90% of the posts, that is for sure. But at the same time, we feel that it will be pointless and awkward if we bring our other puppets from other regions just to make the RMB more active, when in reality, maybe 3-5 people tops are active.
[10:17 PM]Somyrion:ah okay
[10:18 PM]Somyrion:did anything change in the last month (no RMB posts) or just a period of people doing other stuff?
[10:19 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:I think it’s just some RMB talk here and there, nothing much. :sweat_smile:
[10:22 PM]Somyrion:do you foresee the region getting more active again?
[10:23 PM]Somyrion:Forest is going through its furiously inspecting the embassies stage again and people wanted to know why we had and were maintaining an embassy with you guys… I can’t remember what the circumstances around the formation were
[10:27 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:I don’t think so.
[10:28 PM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:For the exception, I’m not very sure either. I remembered it was told why once but I think I forgot.
[12:03 AM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:So yeah, some of them were active for more than a decade on NS, and were basically retired at this point. We still talk to each other now and then, but I don’t think it will warrant for a maintained embassy since we are going to be very inactive. :sweat:
[12:03 AM]Somyrion:Mhm. That’s unfortunate to hear of course.
[12:03 AM]Somyrion:Can I relay that back to Turbeaux and the rest of the Forest government?
[12:04 AM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:Sure thing! ^^
[12:04 AM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:Yeah, it will be unfortunate to lose the embassy, but at this point, I don’t think we really mind.
[12:10 AM]Somyrion:Well, it’s not clear that we’d withdraw embassies yet, just take an “audit” so to speak.
[12:10 AM]Somyrion:I really like you guys in Singapore so it is quite unfortunate though
[12:10 AM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:Yeah, I know. :/
[12:11 AM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:Well, we can always visit you with a puppet (I already have my main in Forest) if we are feeling chatty!
[12:11 AM]Valentine Clarissa Alanis Star Z:But I think we will never get back to being too active. Activity has really died down.

Two other regions that are plenty active but that I think we should have our eyes on: Winterfell and Sunalaya. I’ve never been able to get any response from them when running the Photo Contests, N-Day, or any other regional event – they both have a lot of embassies and don’t seem interested at all in a relationship with Forest. I don’t think we should be considering closing the embassies, but we might want to try and encourage some dialogue and see if they’re still interested.

VerdantHaven

Fantastic information Mount Seymour, thanks!

I like that image of you, Ruinenlust - the Grim Embassy Gardener :-D :-D :-D

Sounds like generally in favor so far, of the proposed actions. I’m all ears for more feedback!

Ruinenlust

Damn VH, you’re really a go-getter. And you’re also inside my thoughts, since I was planning something similar to this.

I absolutely agree. I have been secretly (not so secretly) hoping that we could prune away some of these embassies. I think we would do well to close the embassies with regions that are abandoned or essentially defunct, along with some of the others that has been in such a state of decline for so long that they would be rejected immediately if they didn’t already have an embassy with us. I think we should start with some of the low-hanging dead fruit, and take it from there.

I also agree with waiting for the new Article 6 to transfer embassies, since it would be very simple and would show that side of the revised article to the region, which would otherwise perhaps go unused for quite some time. It would be great to link back up with Evergreen Conifer (despite the larches and the dawn redwood, which are presumably arbores non grati, now, lol), and I remember Wisky from Pacifica fondly. I didn’t know that they had gone to Thessalia.

Turbeaux hits the nail on the head with the “maudlin overattachment,” but I think we can persuade people if we come out gently but clearly in favor of closure. Again, if seen through the lens of a prospective new embassy, Futaba Aoi would be rejected out of hand, and nobody would comment, and nobody would care, and life would move on without so much as the ripple rings of a stone thrown into a pool. So snip snip, here come the pruning shears. 😆

Ruinenlust

Haha, I like that, Mt. Seymour: “…rather than just something Ruinenlust did in the background.”
As I skulk on the outskirts of the embassy garden with my scythe, draped in black robes and making menacing swinging motions at dead skeletons of plants…

I agree with you, though! It should be done with some recognition of what the embassy once was, and what the region once was. Every embassy, even the ones on the chopping block, should be dealt with as individual cases with unique circumstances.

I also agree that we should keep an eye on regions that, while perhaps very active in and of themselves, nevertheless don’t seem to give a damn that we have an embassy with them. If you’ve had trouble contacting Winterfell and Sunalaya, that’s a good thing to know, if for no other reason than it gives context in the event that the region eventually goes into decline or is transferred. I’d rather vouch for a small region that we have something to do with than a powerhouse that ignores us.

Mozworld

FAC - The WFE says Region Closed. Nuff said.

Futaba Aoi - Like with Groland / Kindjal before them, I think that one of the main reasons this region’s embassy has persisted has been the environmental credentials of Steenia. Well, Steenia briefly CTEd a month ago, and since then they haven’t re-established their flag, so I think it’s highly likely they will CTE again. Probably finally time to put them out to pasture.

A Liberal Haven - As ambassador to ALH I would be disappointed to see the embassy go, but wouldn’t be surprised. I’ve tried TGing Garchy a couple of times to see if I could provide any assistance to get their refounding under way, but never received a response. I think they’re just happy to stay the way they are. Even if we could get the doors open over there I don’t think there’s the enthusiasm to regrow the region.

Singapore - Well, if Valentine Z thinks we should close it, then fair enough.

Garden-of-Holly

Everything regarding to Singapore, yep, more or less that.

We don’t mind an embassy, but we also don’t mind a closure. If you look at the region now, the activity is very, very sparse with occasional posts now and then. Add to the fact that we are closed to prevent possible raiding, and the region has been extremely inactive.

I talked to a few folks on the Gameplay side, and they suggested refounding the region with an active user, but I will have to wait given how rare the activity is. This might take some time.

We don’t mind either way, and it is fine. ^^ We still consider you as friends, but just that our activity has dropped to nearly zero. We can come around to Forest if we want to talk, or re-open if I am refounding.

Happy Holidays! 😃

VerdantHaven

Garden-of-Holly Thank you for the feedback and confirmation regarding Singapore. I likewise would very much continue to regard Singapore as friends. It is simply due to the additional obligations that an embassy brings (especially the hopefully soon-to-be requirements for an active ambassador to an inactive region), that the particular level of formality represented by an open embassy becomes a challenge. Should the day come when refounding becomes a possibility and activity resumes, I would certainly be delighted to see the re-establishment of formal ties with a re-invigorated Singapore.